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  • Silicon Bed 'Springs'???

    Does anyone have experience with these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...MFA4MBN8&psc=1??

  • #2
    When using those the bed gets a fixed height, so the entire printer needs to be square and in an 90° angle to your build plate, or your auto bed levelling goes to overdrive.

    When your nozzle drives into the bed there is also no way for the bed to retreat and the force will be on one spot on the bed (bad if you use a glass bed) and the gantry. What ever breaks first wins or looses.

    These are silicone, but the don´t do have a spring effect. At least not until you put a ton of force to them or apply the force sideways, which is not possible as there is a screw in when mounted. The only active thing they do is insulating the bed from the frame.

    You don´t even need these feed for that. You can just print and use spacers to replace the springs to get the same result for free. I experimented with that in the past myself, but the result wasn´t that good.

    Recently more printers get released without a spring bed, but a bed levelling sensor. I find that a cheap excuse to force people to use auto bed levelling and to make the design cheaper. They even deliver the same bed levelling wheels to mount the bed, but spare the springs.

    Then on the other hand I never liked ABL in the first place and the only thing a sensor on the tool head is useful in my opinion is to always get the same z height, when changing the build plate itself or the heat bed temperature. Since my printers all have a adjustable z endstop, I worked around that quite elegant anyway without messing with the firmware or individual bed levelling screws to move the bed up and down.

    So the conclusion and answer to your question: I don´t like it!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ender5r View Post
      Does anyone have experience with these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...MFA4MBN8&psc=1??
      What i did is get these springs https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 because the springs that came with the Ender 3 V2 were not very stiff. These are, then i got a BLTouch. I then removed the z axes limit switch and tightened the springs down as far as they would go then leveled the bed. This keeps the bed level but allows some give when needed. I use a PEI power coated spring steel sheet for my printing surface.. This allows the prints to stick to the bed very well when heated and when cooled it releases smaller prints very well and larger ones come off easy with just a slight bend of the spring steel. The sheet is held on by a magnetic sheet. So comes off of the bed very easily when needed. The only draw back is unlike glass its not perfectly flat. That's were the BL Touch comes in. I don't like the look that glass gives the bottom of my prints. I would rather have a slight texture to it.

      Anyway that's my 2 cents 😀 and am very happy with it.

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      • #4
        Geit, interesting PoV. One note: the ones I linked to can be squished with just 2 fingers. I certainly get that really hard ones would actually be a detriment, but Tripods Garage shows them being squished at 15:00, and it doesn't seem like they're all that stiff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S01oCQc6e68

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        • #5
          The only things I upgraded "hardware wise" on my printers are longer bed levelling screws and more stiff springs. The rest are all 3D printed enhancements.

          And speaking of the springiness of these rubber thingies: They tend to bulk 90° sideways and when the screw is on the inside, there is nothing the inner wall can bend to, so the screw diameter defines the springiness.
          Last edited by Geit; 10-27-2020, 03:19 PM.

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          • #6
            Sort of jumping in here, I agree with many of the comments, the Ender 5 has an inherent problem in that the bed is only supported from the back. It tends to dip towards the front. If you get solid bed mounts it makes it stay that way. I went very similar to Larry and got some stiffer springs and then leveled the bed the old fashioned way. I have an EZABL, but this gets it close and takes a lot of the work off of the ABL.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
              Sort of jumping in here, I agree with many of the comments, the Ender 5 has an inherent problem in that the bed is only supported from the back. It tends to dip towards the front. If you get solid bed mounts it makes it stay that way. I went very similar to Larry and got some stiffer springs and then leveled the bed the old fashioned way. I have an EZABL, but this gets it close and takes a lot of the work off of the ABL.
              Have you ever looked into converting the Ender 5's into dual Z axis.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ender5r View Post

                Have you ever looked into converting the Ender 5's into dual Z axis.
                In fact that is a good idea. My TronXY X5 by default has the very same forklift design and was wobbly and springy when I got it. During print the bed was kind of swinging, so I added two linear rods, a lead screw and a looped timing belt to the other side.

                Best decision ever made. The prints are fantastic now. Kind of forgot about it, as it was the first thing I did, when I saw the printers design and I got it second hand.
                Last edited by Geit; 10-28-2020, 04:17 AM.

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                • #9
                  I have thought about it, my Ender 5 Plus has the dual Z and it works very well The 5 prints well and the Ezabl really helps If I ever saw a complete kit, then I might do it I just got another stock Ender 5, not sure how I'm going to mod it

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
                    I have thought about it, my Ender 5 Plus has the dual Z and it works very well The 5 prints well and the Ezabl really helps If I ever saw a complete kit, then I might do it I just got another stock Ender 5, not sure how I'm going to mod it
                    You don´t need an additional motor. Just a belt is doing just fine in most cases.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Geit View Post

                      You don´t need an additional motor. Just a belt is doing just fine in most cases.
                      Plus P.I.D. tuning I assume???

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ender5r View Post

                        Plus P.I.D. tuning I assume???
                        No, my printers have basically the stock 8 bit Marlin 1.0.x firmware, so no pid. The graph in octoprint is jumping up/down less than 3°c for bed and hotends, so there is no real need for that. The bed insulation does its job. Beside that I am not willing to spend time on a 8 bit update, because the printers work fine the way they are. When a board breaks, which is probably the one on the Anet mainboard within the heat chamber, then I will update to an external 32 bit board anyway. Till then: No chance! It is a tool that works and I am lazy.

                        I used PID tuning only on my GeitPrinter, because the 750W heat bed would overshoot quite a bit.

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                        • #13
                          OK. Thanks for the info.

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                          • #14
                            That's the problem I have my two Ender 5s are working well with just the one Z axis. The small bed size and the ABL help, that is why i removed the solid bed spacers and went back to springs.
                            I can get it very close by using the manual leveling and then let the ABL fine tune.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
                              That's the problem I have my two Ender 5s are working well with just the one Z axis. The small bed size and the ABL help, that is why i removed the solid bed spacers and went back to springs.
                              I can get it very close by using the manual leveling and then let the ABL fine tune.
                              As I said get matching rods and lead screws, a looped timing belt and the linear bearings or what is required/used on the other side, print something to mount the stuff to the bed and frame and done. These fork lift designs scream for trouble. Especially for bigger prints which add additional load to the bed tilting it more and more, which increases layer by layer and reduces layer adhesion on one side more and more.

                              It cost more time and nerves compared to fixing the stuff once and for all for just 25 euro you pay for materials and some filament + printing/assembly time. People tend to say the TronXY printers with forklift are crap. Well, they are right in that department, but once fixed you get an excellent printer with a great print quality. So I guess other forklift type printers gain the same amount of quality.

                              I needed to print the required parts on my ANet A8, as it was the only printer that day and the TronXY was disassembled the moment I got it. The print quality of those parts is crap like hell, but as long as they work, I am fine with it. Since the parts are bigger as the print bed, they where split in half and the uneven disposed heat of the ANets bed wasn´t the best to get these huge parts stick in the first place. I probably should have reprinted them with the TronXY, but then why? It is a tool and not an Art project

                              The bed got stabilized about three years ago and everything is fine

                              And little fun fact: The Printer has five (!!) belts now. 1 for Z, 3 for Y and 1 for X
                              Last edited by Geit; 10-28-2020, 06:13 PM.

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